Jaz (00:10):
He y there, listeners. Welcome to My Mate In. Today I'm catching up with my mate from Boston, Kelly. Kelly, thanks for joining me.

Kelly (00:19):
Good morning, Jasmine. And thanks for having me because I get to do one of the things I love the most, and that's talk about a city, I have to say, that's often neglected by Australians in the travel trails. Yeah.

Jaz (00:29):
Ooh, spicy.

Kelly (00:30):
Yeah. So I'm, yeah, as you said, I'm from Boston and I find that with Australians, they get as far northeast as New York City. Understandable. Like, I mean, we've all seen Home Alone, right? Like who would wanna go to New York? , who wouldn't wanna go to New York City, but um, really, like Boston is sometimes called the Athens of America, not because we have this tremendous Greek population, but because it's so steeped in history. And a lot of the, um, cultural cuisine from Boston ties back to like the early roots of like the fishing industry, for example.

Jaz (01:01):
Right.

Kelly (01:02):
And cod and all that sort of stuff. I'll talk more about that in a minute, but just to, um, one of the things that you brought up earlier was do you have any dietary concerns or we're lucky, I'll give you that a little bit of context. So we're really lucky we don't have any, um, you know, celiacs or, and not to say that that's a curse, obviously, but we just kind of can go open slather. No nut allergies. Like my kids are very much the nut allergy generation. . My big caveat is though, three teenagers. So that's always, um, tricky. And my kids have very different culinary peccadillos, if you will. one is a true foodie. One would eat the diet of a toddler, so chicken fingers and french fries, , and carrots. And then my other one is just about the volume of food. How much food can I get into me? Right? He's like a born buffet person. So, um, so that, you know, obviously to some extent impacts on the types of, uh, choices we make when we go over to Boston. But, um, we do have a couple of stock standard places that we get to. So I'll tell you a little bit about that.

Jaz (02:01):
Perfect. I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I need to speak to more people who are living abroad and talking about a place that they come from, because I loved that you just dive into like, Hey, here's what you need to think about when you visit the US. Like that, that was really passionate.

Kelly (02:17):
Oh, thanks. I'm a great advocate for my, for my city. Right? And I think actually you, you don't appreciate that when you live in a place, it's when you leave that all of a sudden you go, oh, hey. So .

Jaz (02:28):
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so we've got a couple of places to talk about. Where are we gonna start?

Kelly (02:33):
Okay. So I mentioned the fishing industry of Boston, right? And like they, the saying is Australia rides on the sheep's back. I think early Colonial America, and probably up until, uh, oh, I, I mean, I would st still say it's, it's relevant to the economy in New England is fishing. So if you go with any kind of seafood options in and around Boston, really, really good. Great. Fantastic lobsters, very different than Australian lobster. Um, a lot more meat in the claws and they're relatively reasonably priced.

Jaz (03:03):
Okay.

Kelly (03:03):
And the same with like oysters. Um, we have something called steamers, which are really just little like, kind of white clams that you just cook till they're similar to a mussel. You get lots of muss here. Um, so anything kind of in that area, if you love your seafood, crab cakes, all of that sort of stuff, it's a great place to go. And , it's funny, I used to say like Boston, because it's a city that's built on swampland. I've never been to a city that's more blase about their waterfront, right? , like every other city you go to, they have a, a postage size area of waterfront, like Nashville being one and everything fans out from there, right?

Jaz (03:39):
Mm-Hmm.

Kelly (03:39):
Boston's like, meh, we've got all this water, we just don't know what to do with it, sort of thing. It's a working harbor. So in the last 20 years, they've obviously shifted that it's become very gentrified and there's lots of great eateries and stuff. But the place that I wanna talk about, um, for your seafood is a Boston institution. The building itself has been around since the 16 hundreds.

Jaz (03:57):
Wow.

Kelly (03:58):
And it had all sorts of various purposes over the years. Um, allegedly one of the future kings of France had lived on the first floor of the place. It was kind of, um, historically tied to like all the rebels during the American Revolution, and they printed some newspaper and all sorts of legendary kind of stuff happened at this building. But since I think about the 18 hundreds, it's been The Union Oyster House. And you go in and it's got the rickety old floors. It's got a little tiny bar that you can sit at and they shuck the oysters right there in front of you. It doesn't look fancy, but it's quintessentially New England. And as I said, really tied to that whole, um, and the good thing is it's like steps from Faneuil Hall, which is like a really kind of beautiful old cobblestone touristy area. So lots of really cool, fun things to see in and around that, the old custom house, your steps from the waterfront. So it's a really great place to kind of put on the bucket list if you're gonna go to Boston and say, where am I gonna eat today? So oh, and clam chowder. Like I couldn't, I, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention clam chowder, like fatty. Fantastic. Not for the vegans. Um...

Jaz (05:03):
Would that be your go-to?

Kelly (05:04):
That would be one of my go-tos. Yeah. Like, I, I don't, um, I, I always try to get a clam chowder in when I get home. Even if it's summer. Like I'm like, I'm eating the God damn soup now it's humid and 35 degrees outside...

Jaz (05:18):
That was my next question. Yes.

Kelly (05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I'll still go in for the cup of soup. Um, and the other thing is, and I haven't seen these anywhere, it comes with oyster crackers. They're called oyster crackers. There's nothing oyster about them. It's just the name.

Jaz (05:29):
Yeah.

Kelly (05:29):
I think it's the shape. 'cause they look like kind of a little, like a little tiny miniature oyster, but they're just little, almost like a crouton. And they come in a little pack when you order your chowder and you open the little pack and you dump it in.

Jaz (05:40):
Oh, interesting. I don't know why my brain's instantly going to like prawn chips when you order Chinese food.

Kelly (05:45):
Yeah, no, yeah...

Jaz (05:48):
Crouton. Crunchier?

Kelly (05:49):
Yeah. Crunchy. Yeah. Like a puffy jat [jatz crackers], but tiny.

Jaz (05:52):
Ah, okay. Nice.

Kelly (05:53):
Yeah. So, and I think the other thing that's important, like with the US, like so much cuisine is regionally driven and regionally based. So, and I'm sure you would've found this when you've traveled, you go to the south and you're gonna get a completely different menu or kind of list of choices. I, I'd never even heard of like okra for example, which is like a stock standard southern thing until I was in my twenties. .

Jaz (06:17):
Yeah.

Kelly (06:18):
So yeah, there is a lot of regional variation. So seafood is definitely one of our, one of our things.

Jaz (06:24):
Yeah. Cool.

Kelly (06:24):
So, Hmm. Yeah.

Jaz (06:26):
Okay. Maybe projecting onto you, Kelly, I'm, I'm wondering like in this situation, I'd want like a white wine or something.

Kelly (06:33):
Oh yeah.

Jaz (06:34):
What do you pair with?

Kelly (06:35):
Um, yes, you pair with, it's an Irish city. That's what you pair it with. .

Jaz (06:40):
. Good point. Good point.

Kelly (06:43):
Um, yeah. And again, Boston's a really interesting mix because it's a bit like Australia in a lot of ways. You've got the kind of the old Yankee established money, right? That came over as merchants and, um, officers in the Army or Navy or whatever. So it's got this kind of like quasi British connection still of like old money.

Jaz (07:02):
Mm.

Kelly (07:03):
And Harvard and all that sort of stuff. That's all the old, what we would call a WASP right? White Anglo Saxon, Protestant. However, like any city, it had its waves of immigrants, one of the biggest being the Bos, um, the Irish. So Irish Bostonians are obviously a real thing. Still are. And since then, you know, lots of Italians, lots of Greeks. And the past probably 40 years has been more like Vietnamese, Southeast Asian, uh, lots of Brazilians. So you really get a little bit, a little bit of everything. But I think the Irish, because they've been there like the Italians as well, they've been there so long, they've really got a foothold in terms of like what the food and pub culture looks like. So yeah. And there's lots of good Irish pubs in and around, like The Union Oyster House anf Faneuil Hall and that area.

Jaz (07:44):
Cool.

Kelly (07:44):
So yeah, lots to explore, but I'm sure you could get like a nice glass of bubbles or cheeky white wine with your, um, with your oysters or you clam chowder [emphasised accent] as we as we say chowder!

Jaz (07:56):
.

Kelly (07:57):
It's like easy slide into Australian accent because Bostonians notoriously drop their Rs out of things. So Yeah.

Jaz (08:04):
Isn't that interesting? It's not that different.

Kelly (08:07):
No. So my friends tell me, now, I have a Bos-stralian accent.

Jaz (08:11):
. And how do you feel about that?

Kelly (08:12):
I don't know. A bit conflicted to be honest.

Jaz (08:15):
, I thought that might be the answer. . All right. So we have ticked seafood. What's next?

Kelly (08:22):
Yep. Okay. And my other one is I'll, I'll, I'll sum up kind of, I don't know, three of the most historic and, um, culturally, as I said, left that cultural footprint in Boston. The second is the Italians. So just kind of steps away, like maybe, uh, within a kilometer is the North End. Again, really historic. And actually The Union Oyster House in the North End are all in the downtown area. Um, and along the Freedom Trail, which is like literally a red line that they've painted onto the sidewalk. And it gives you all these little historical sites that you can do along the way, which is really cool. So it's like a self-guided tour. You can do like a walking tour that's like more formal. You actually have a tour guide and both of these places are kind of in and around that area. Um, so again, home to a lot of the rabble rousers, the North End, back in the day, like the story of like the lanterns when the British were coming 'one if my land, two if I sea' all, have that kind of connection down to this area, at some point during America's immigration history, the Italians populated it and never left.

Jaz (09:25):
Okay.

Kelly (09:25):
So it still is a really fun place to go. Lots of mom and pop restaurants, lots of really tiny little flats. I lived in there for, um, about six months. It was a great place. You couldn't walk home without getting a cannoli . Um, so, which is both goody and bad. Um, but yeah, really fun...

Jaz (09:41):
Sweet or savory?

Kelly (09:43):
Oh, sweet.

Jaz (09:44):
Yeah.

Kelly (09:45):
Yeah. Mascarponi and yeah. Yeah. Um, so that's really good. Lots of bakeries and just lot, lot of little fun little interesting places you can pop into. But, um, the OG [original] like pizza place is called Pizzeria Regina. And it was established like in the 1920s. And you go there not just for the pizza, but for the salty waitresses. because , They're like, what do you want? [impersonating abrubtly] You know, it's like that kind of place where you just like, they just have 'tude [attitude] and they just like turn over so many tables. They don't care if you tip them because they're like, you're gonna be gone in 10 minutes and there'll be another.

Jaz (10:19):
Yeah. Right.

Kelly (10:19):
So, yeah. And they're not like outwardly rude, but you can tell they're just like, they're like career waitresses and they've got no time for your shit. So order , have your damn pizza and get out. So yeah. It's, so it's really, it's really fun and it's so tiny. I think the, um, toilet, the bathroom in there is like an airplane toilet size. It's like...

Jaz (10:40):
Oh wow.

New Speaker (10:40):
...you know, you gotta turn around like this. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. You know, that's sort of thing. So, um, the really good giant, like just classic cheese pizzas, I mean, they do everything, but we always go in and get like a big filthy cheese pizza and Yeah. That keeps us going for the day. Yeah.

Jaz (10:58):
Well, one of the things that Tim and I, um, my other half, and I always talk about, not always, we're not talking about pizza constantly , but there's quite a distinction between Italian pizza and what we would traditionally see as like an American pizza. Like what is this Boston Italian pizza? Where does, which kind of end does it sit on?

Kelly (11:17):
Um, I would say it's like a classic Napolitan style. So like Southern Italy, so big thin crust, hot oven temperatures, nothing fancy. You're not gonna go in there and get artichokes on your pizza. You'd get laughed out of the place. Right. Um, so they just do like,

Jaz (11:33):
Simple. Good.

Kelly (11:34):
Yeah. Simple, good, big. Like a New York style pizza, like that's kind of all in the same sort of vein, but none of those like tiny bar pizzas like fancy . Yeah. No, none of that. None of that. So,

Jaz (11:46):
Okay.

Kelly (11:46):
Yeah, it's good. So my child who likes to eat by volume perfect for him. 'cause it's it's cheap and they're big in their feeling.

Jaz (11:54):
Yes and you can just get like a cheese pizza for the one who eats kind of more like staples.

Kelly (12:00):
Yep, exactly. The staples, yeah, the toddler diet.

Jaz (12:02):
Are we ticking the third? What was our third requirement?

Kelly (12:04):
Oh, he's the foodie. So yeah. Yeah.

Jaz (12:09):
Tick, tick, tick.

Kelly (12:10):
Yeah. So everybody's happy with that. Yeah. And husband, thank God he's easy. So he's just like, whatever, . So I think the last time we were, um, home, which was just October, I think they went there. I didn't always go 'cause I was busy catching up with people, but I think they went at least three times to in Regina's.

Jaz (12:26):
Wow.

Kelly (12:27):
Yeah. And we just go and then walk around and do something touristy in town or whatever. So yeah. Good family place.

Jaz (12:32):
That's quite a good testament to it being good.

Kelly (12:33):
Yeah. Yeah. So you always know what you're gonna get too. There's, there's kind of always a comfort in that with food, isn't there? Like, that's the McDonald's philosophy, right? You're always going to know what it's gonna taste like, look like. So

Jaz (12:45):
Yes. Yeah. This is why I used to, I'm, I don't wanna at all try to draw a similarity between the place I'm about to mention and the place you're speaking about, but when I lived in Wagga, that's why I loved La Porchett.

Kelly (12:57):
Yes.

Jaz (12:57):
I know it's not around anymore, but it was always open and it was, you just always knew what you were gonna get. Always consistent.

Kelly (13:03):
Very consistent.

Jaz (13:04):
Very relaxed atmosphere. Yeah. It's good to have a place like that.

Kelly (13:09):
Yeah, it is, it is for sure. And my third and final place that I'm going to mention a little bit left of center in terms of, it's not food, but it is good for drinking .

Jaz (13:20):
Okay. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I'm listening.

Kelly (13:23):
Okay. Now, and, and I should preface that was, by saying it's full of seasoned drinkers a lot of the times, right? . So it's this place called , J.J. Foley's, um, not a tourist place.

Jaz (13:36):
Okay.

Kelly (13:37):
So in the old days it was like right near the old newspaper, one of the Boston newspaper headquarters, like printing areas. So they do not judge, there is no judgment in terms of if you wanna drink at 8:00 AM that's the place you go to .

Jaz (13:51):
Yeah?

Kelly (13:51):
So you get a lot of cops, a lot of firemen, a lot of fellas who worked at, um, the overnight shift at the newspaper. Like it was, it's like a round the clock sort of bar. And there's always people, but come about midnight, it just fills up with like lots of uni students and lots of hipsters and lots of, um, a little, little bit of everything. All walks of life between like midnight, probably 11 and 2:00 AM. So, so it's re it's really a kind of a funny, um, it's a long, one long bar. Like, it's like a traditional, like you're walking back in time into like the early 19 hundreds still family owned and it's called J.J. Foley's. And it's also right on the cusp of like, kind of like areas in Boston that used to be a bit like kind of seedy and run down, but now they're getting a little bit more like gentrified and, um, and it's literally like a door on a corner that you could just like walk past and miss it. It's that kind of place.

Jaz (14:41):
Oh, cool. Nice.

Kelly (14:42):
Yeah. So it's fun. It's fun as long as you go at the right time, which is generally after midnight .

Jaz (14:48):
And so you say it's, um, it's not a touristy place.

Kelly (14:51):
No.

Jaz (14:53):
Is there a sense when someone walks in and they're clearly from out of town like that, there'd be a vibe?

Kelly (14:57):
Oh, yeah, yeah. But, but, but in the true old barman style, the barmen are quite often on for chat.

Jaz (15:03):
Okay.

Kelly (15:03):
They still wear a shirt and tie. None of this like, there's no, like, we're wearing t-shirts or... , none of that. No memes on their shirts or clothing, you know, it's like old school, like they roll up the shirt sleeves and they have the tie and the white shirt and stuff, so. Yeah. Yeah. So in that sense it's a bit of a Boston institution. But having said that, there's lots of really good fun touristy the Irish pubs that are all in and around as well.

Jaz (15:29):
Okay, so you have one on your hot list and explore from there.

Kelly (15:33):
It's a hot list one. Yeah. Because I think it's like one that not, a tourist might not get to.

Jaz (15:40):
Right. And what do you order when you're there?

Kelly (15:42):
A Guinness.

Jaz (15:43):
Nice.

Kelly (15:44):
Yep. Yep. And the other thing I would say, like you, I feel like New York City is fantastic, right? There's such wow factor, but you could literally spend three months in New York City and feel like you've barely scratched the surface.

Jaz (15:55):
Mm.

Kelly (15:56):
Boston on the other hand, it reminds me a lot of Melbourne, it's not about the wow factor. There's no real wow factor in Boston. Like the harbor's pretty and stuff, but it's not Sydney. Um, but you could spend like four days in Boston, so three or three days in Boston and feel like you've seen it. Like you feel like you've got an idea of what it's really like. Yeah. And then you, there's lots of other really cool things to do, like Harvard, which technically isn't part of Boston, but really is, um, all of that's kind of really accessible.

Jaz (16:24):
Mm-Hmm. .

Kelly (16:25):
And it's a great walking city. So like the, um, like I said, the Freedom Trail, it's a great way to see the city on foot and stop off and have a drink, have a little glass of wine or a Guinness and keep going. Then go and listen to some Irish music or whatever it might be. So you can do lots of stuff in a fairly compact area.

Jaz (16:41):
I really like visiting places like that. Sure. There's excitement in places where you'd need to just keep going back or spend a really long time. But the way I like to travel is go and stay at the one place for a longer period of time.

Kelly (16:54):
Yeah.

Jaz (16:55):
And get a feel for what it's like to live there and the culture, not just the, the touristy culture stuff. Um,

Kelly (17:01):
Yeah. Yeah.

Jaz (17:03):
Oh, I feel like you might've put Boston on my radar in a way that it wasn't before. This is cool.

Kelly (17:07):
Oh, that's good. That's good. Yeah.

Jaz (17:09):
The history sounds really impressive as well. Like intertwined with all of these different area, the different options you're talking about.

Kelly (17:16):
Yeah. And there's like, yeah, and there's some really kind of cool little old style like pubs and restaurants and that sort of thing. Uh, in Boston's Beacon Hill, which is, like I said, that's like the original old money section, right? Like all the rich merchants, that's where they built and bought back in the 17 and 18 hundreds. So even just to walk through the brownstones and Yeah, it's great. It's like I said, you can, you can do a lot. It's very compact and there's lots to see and eat and drink, so it's great.

Jaz (17:43):
Perfect.

Kelly (17:44):
Hmm.

Jaz (17:45):
Kelly, I loved this conversation.

Kelly (17:47):
Oh thanks, Jaz.

Jaz (17:48):
I kind of like, wanna book a ticket now to go explore in Boston . Um, thanks so much for coming on and, and sharing your insights. I, I love that I have this chance to speak with people who have that, that on the ground experience and also passion for different places. So yeah. Thank you for sharing your expertise.

Kelly (18:06):
Well, thanks for having me. Yeah. Great. I'm glad to be an ambassador for a great city. .